BBV 2010: Massachusetts - Watch for Pre-Emptive Maneuver Thru "Calling the Race"

SHINING A BRIGHT LIGHT ON AN UNDEMOCRATIC TACTIC

For 10 years, I've been watching a trend to manipulate elections through premature "call" of the race by a media outlet. See below for predictions on what may follow a media call for either candidate in Massachusetts.

The media "call" can be manipulated because the public doesn't know that projected winners come from a system that is not even a governmental source! In fact, the media "calls" elections based on data from just one media outlet -- usually a quiet little division of the Associated Press that occupies a little corner somewhere and answers very few questions. Volunteers call in result reports to the corporation. The reports are often inaccurate (see below for examples). The names of these volunteers are not part of the public record. We will never get the list of names for those who will call in the 351 numbers which will result in "calling the election" for Tuesday's Massachusetts election.

HOW THE MEDIA "CALL" MAY ULTIMATELY CONTROL POLICY

If Tuesday's Massachusetts special senate election is "called" for Democrat Martha Coakley, expect to see a rush to install her, copying a Republican tactic in 2006 whereby San Diego's Brian Bilbray was seated by the US House of Representatives before tens of thousands of votes were even counted. Yes, the Senate can override the actual election results, or pre-empt the real results, and pre-emptively install a candidate based on a media prediction, or a bunch of unofficial tallies, or whatever they want. It can be done. It has been done. And if the media calls the race for Coakley, expect to see it done again.

If the race is "called" for Republican Scott Brown, expect to see a rush from Republican lawyers to claim that Brown has the right to vote immediately, instead of Paul Kirk who is current interim successor to Ted Kennedy. If that fails, look for an attempt to force abstention on the Massachusetts vote while stall tactics play out.

Sixty votes are needed. If Coakley is called and installed, they've got the 60. If Brown is called and stalled, they've got 59. Either way, the media "call" on Massachusetts is going to be under exceptional political pressure.

No matter where you stand on the controversial healthcare bill, be aware that what you see reported on Election Night is not only not "official" or "final", but is not even real, and may not even be the numbers written down by poll workers or printed out by the voting machine.

ISSUING FALSE NUMBERS TO THE MEDIA TO CREATE A FALSE "CALL"

In the recent controversial NY-23 race, volunteers in multiple wards called in zeroes instead of votes for Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman. There WERE votes, but they called in zero and later said oops. This was not a plausible oops, because the zeroes were not called in randomly for various races, nor did the zeroes spread themselves among different candidates. Doug Hoffman had false zeroes reported while votes were called in for the others. Incorrect figures provided to the media resulted in a margin which appeared thousands of votes larger than it actually was, goading Hoffman to concede prematurely.

In the Florida 2000 presidential election, impossible numbers were provided to the media producing exactly the margin needed to "call" the race for George W. Bush. Minus 16,000 votes were reported for Al Gore, and (not knowing the margin was false), Gore conceded privately to Bush and nearly conceded to the nation.

In New York City's 2008 presidential primary, more than 50 wards falsely reported "zero" votes for Obama (but not for Hillary), creating a superficially low result on Election Night.

In Maine's 2009 election, the media reported called-in results for Lewiston and Augusta, two of Maine's largest cities, for seven ballot questions each with two possible choices (7x2=14 results per city), a total of 28 vote results for the two cities. Not a single one of the 28 results was correct, and eight were off by large margins.

In New England, even preliminary governmental results from each municipality are not compiled for a day or so. Results are typically sent by courier or brought by the police to the secretary of state. The results you see on the news are therefore not government results at all, but results generated by unnamed volunteers (or sometimes paid part timers) working for a corporation.

The media "call game" is a political game that can be played dirty, and in Massachusetts, the media "call" could ultimately control national healthcare policy.

Usually, these premature calls can be unraveled if they are incorrect because elections aren't certified for several days and winning candidates aren't installed into office for a month or more. But in Massachusetts, because of the special situation with an imminent vote on a controversial bill combined with a temporary senator, the media call can create an undemocratic mess.

JOURNALISTIC MALPRACTICE

When the media calls an election based on non-governmental verbal information from unnamed volunteers, it displaces legitimate election procedures. Media volunteers can -- and HAVE -- issued false numbers in order to get the media to call an election for a candidate. The US Congress can -- and HAS -- installed new voting members of congress before the votes are counted or the contest is determined.

If a media outlet calls the Massachusetts race based on verbal reports from names that are never disclosed, we need to call this what it is: Journalistic malpractice, and a danger to democracy.

If what you see Tuesday night ain't right, be prepared to speak up. Or shout loudly. It's our duty.

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

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Saved from the Memory Hole - Deleted DailyKos Palin Baby Story

PLEASE NOTE: THIS STORY IS BEING REPUBLISHED HERE IN ITS ENTIRETY UNDER THE PRINCIPLES OF "FAIR USE" TO SAVE IT FROM DISAPPEARING PERMANENTLY DOWN THE "MEMORY HOLE" OF GEORGE ORWELL FAME.

Just because the Palin family now says that their daughter is five months pregnant and therefore couldn't possibly be baby Trig's mom, doesn't mean that the claim is actually true.

DailyKos continues their disappointing habit of suppressing "dangerous" thought (like 9/11 Truth, for instance) by immediately kow-towing to the pressure and making the story simply vanish. Thank the Goddess for Google Cache. There is at least one other article about this topic that was published first on DailyKos that DIDN'T get Cached. If anyone has a link to a copy, please leave it in the comments.

This is an important story because it means that one of two things HAS to be true.

Either:

A) Sarah Palin is NOT baby Trig's mom, and has engaged in public self-serving lying about said motherhood in a way to enhance her standing in the radical pro-life political community.

- OR -

B) Sarah Palin IS baby Trig's mom, and she behaved in wantonly reckless behavior with regards to her unborn child (and the safety and well being of airline crews and passengers) by her actions traveling in the 72 hours leading up to his birth, thus calling into serious question both her intrinsic judgement and character AND her alleged beliefs about the "sanctity of the unborn".

She and McCain can't have it both ways. ONE of the above scenarios is true. Has to be. No crazy conspiracy theory here.

Which is it? I'd really like to know, particularly since the issues around pregnancy and contraception hold such a central place in the Sarah Palin mystique.

But anyway, here's one of the articles that got it all started, with full links and comments. I'm just trying to save it for posterity. Our republic depends on such vigilance, no?

--------------------------------------------

BabyGate: Explosive New Details [Photos+Video]

by ArcXIX

Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:39:54 PM PDT

Yesterday, the nation at large was introduced to Sarah Palin's fraudulent claims of maternity by numerous photographs, video, and a timeline that made even those accepting of the 'official' story turn their heads in confusion.

The revelation that had been whispered among the Alaskan legislature was explosive. Sarah Palin is not the mother of Trig Palin. Her daughter is the mother. Scarce if any refutations to the contrary have come forward, and now damning incidents and evidence has come to light.

Mothers of the world have reeled back in disgust and horror at Sarah's dangerous and possibly fatal story of flying 4000 miles even as she was supposedly in the process of entering labor a month early. Sarah needs to honestly answer for her lies, promptly.

• ArcXIX's diary :: ::
• 
  

As evidenced in the original diary, Sarah has been photographed during her surprise 'pregnancy' as trim, fit, and altogether non-pregnant. Once again presenting Sarah at seven months 'pregnant':

And now newly juxtaposed to Sarah pregnant with her son, Track Palin, in 1989 (right):

The disparity is shocking. Any mother of more than one child will tell you that a female body does not become fitter with each pregnancy, but instead the exact opposite, gaining more and more weight quickly with each successive pregnancy (in Sarah's case, four). Sarah is a perfectly healthy woman, but is far from a petite size, and would not be able to hide a second trimester pregnancy from anyone with a set of eyeballs.

bloggerinterrupted has culled together news videos from the time of the original announcement (seven months into the surprise 'pregnancy'), which reveals no protruding belly line, and the total shock of fellow Alaskans:

Of note, the Newsweek conference at the end was entitled "Newsweek: Women & Leadership". Sarah would issue the statement on her pregnancy the next day (she didn't mention pregnancy once during the presentation), and Newsweek host Karen Breslau was as surprised as anyone:

At the time, I didn't know that Palin, clad in a loose, dark dress, was seven months pregnant with her fifth child. An aide called me the next day to tell me that Palin would be announcing the pregnancy at home in Alaska and that she had wanted me to know as a courtesy. She was sorry she hadn't mentioned it the night before.

A convenient reasoning, allowing Sarah to deftly avoid questioning of any sort before, during, or after the presentation in Los Angeles. This isn't the first time Sarah has fooled someone on video.
In yesterday's diary, a video of Sarah hiking around Juneau, Alaska (and standing in high heels at six months 'pregnant') was presented by Alaska HDTV. They have since issued a statement:

Regarding her pregnancy, all I can say is that it was not obvious to the three of us who were there during the filming. At this time she would be somewhere in her 7th month of pregnancy, which could be hidden with clever clothing, jackets, etc.

In addition, these videos also mark stark contrasts toanother video of Sarah's career as a Sports News Journalist, taped here when she was pregnant with child in 1989. Her facial features are altered, a common effect of pregnancy that Sarah miraculously avoided during her fifth with Trig.

Fast forward to the alleged 'pregnancy' itself, an obstetrician commented at Talking Points Memo that he has serious issues with Palin's decisions:

She claims she flew from Texas to Anchorage after she was having contractions and leaking amniotic fluid. This simply doesn't make sense.

I am a physician and I deliver babies (my last delivery was about 36 hours ago).

...

There is very little chance that a 44 year old woman who was pregnant with her fifth child would last 8 hours with ruptured membranes and contractions. Especially when the baby was approximately 4 weeks early; She would have delivered this baby on the plane.

...

Playing the back seat doctor here, my advice would have been get in the car and go to the nearest hospital with a maternity ward. This is called Premature Preterm Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) and it is dangerous.

...

10:30pm - Palin arrives in Anchorage (approximately 22 hours after membranes ruptured, you start to get worried at 12 hours).

11:30pm - Palin checks into Mat-Su regional in Wasilla, Alaska. (It seems kind of strange that she wouldn't have gone to Providence in Anchorage which has the highest level maternity care in the state. You would want a child with genetic defects to be delivered in a bigger place with more services available.)

...

If she knew her child had this disorder and got on a plane with leaking amniotic fluid, then she shows incredibly poor judgment.

Mentioned below the statement, is the revelation that after landing in Anchorage, Sarah drove past both Providence and Anchorage Regional, facilities ideal for premature deliveries, as both are equipped with neonatal intensive care units (NCIU). The doctor who supposedly approved of Sarah taking such risks, and later delivered Trig? Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who has since been scrubbed from the Mt-Su Regional Medical Center website. Web Archive naturally shows her at the top of the scrubbed list. Sarah's relationship with Cathy has formed over the years, and in 2002 (then Mayor) Sarah named her Family Physician of the Year. In May 2007, (then Governor) Sarah appointed Cathy to the Alaska Health Care Strategies Planning Council, as evidenced by this scrubbed State Press Release. Special connections for special friends.

Mat-Su Regional, the hospital where Trig Palin was delivered, surprisingly does not list Trig on their own list of babies born in that facility for that day of April 18th. A peculiar oddity, as hospitals are usually proud when a local celebrity gives birth within their facility.

Which brings us back to Bristol Palin, the rightful mother of Trig Palin. Over the course of seven months, Bristol had three separate driving offenses, one to carry insurance, one for speeding, and another one for a collision. As a sixteen year-old driver, incidents such as these happen all the time. This is noteworthy, however, due to her being out of school at the time due to the family excuse of 'having infectious mononucleosis' for a period of five to eight months. The police statement reads:

Wasilla Police Department
On February 8, 2008, at 1737 hours, Wasilla Police responded to two vehicle collision at Seward Meridian Parkway and Fireweed Drive. Investigation revealed that Bristol Palin, age 17 of Wasilla, was driving a 4-door sedan and attempted to turn into a business when she struck a 2-door sedan driven by Joshua Moffet, age 19, of Wasilla. Palin was issued a citation for Failing to Use Due Care to Avoid a Collision. Moffet was issued a citation for an expired registration and no proof of insurance.

Out of school, and in a fender-bender located in front a Medical Family Center. Not good.

Back to contrasts, we see here Bristol at Sarah's Governor inauguration:

As flat of a stomach as any. And now later during Bristol's pregnancy:

Bristol & Trig have been pushed backstage or elsewhere in McCain/Palin appearances already, as evidenced by the Washington, PA campaign stop in which Sarah stated Trig was napping while Bristol was watching over him. In any regard, they looked wonderful together at the initial Vice-Presidential unveiling in Dayton, Ohio on Friday:

Sarah? Not so interested.

Tearing apart a mother from her child in the public's eye for political points is the lowest of the low. Bristol Palin deserves the truth from Sarah, delivered to the public, immediately. This charade on the national stage is pathetic, and needs to end promptly.

Digg It.

Yesterday's Diary

Tags: Sarah Palin, Vice President, 2008 elections, Republicans, pregnancy, Bristol Palin, unsubstantiated rumor (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 696 comments

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Daily Kos Help

• Boy, we're having... (64+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  SarahLee, GreenSooner, Hlinko, mattman, etagloh, TooLittleSleep, dc 20005, anotherCt Dem, CoolOnion, Casey, Glinda, Gray, dmsilev, commonscribe, Oy the Billybumbler, Catte Nappe, pat208, blueyedace2, indiemcemopants, LithiumCola, Rogneid, jiordan, trashablanca, PatsBard, Albatross, prodigal, Derfel, Pager, zhimbo, Temmoku, Land of Lincoln Dem, christomento, pgm 01, Randall Sherman, jessical, Kyle the Mainer, willb48, discocarp, AJsMom, bad dad, jay w, mamamarti, BoiseBlue, AikoAdam, lemonverbena, beijingbetty, Hope Monger, bbagley1, flahawkfan, DaNang65, ford prefect 2, BA BarackUS, Dougie, Junah, robertacker13, Mciarlone, Lost and Found, filegirl, ilves, ahyums, Obliterati, The Defenestrator, Cowabunga, Tortured Body Wasted Brains

  ...a weekend to be proud of around here.

  "You won't be happy with me / but give me one more chance / you won't be happy anyway." - Stephin Merritt

  by turnover on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:41:35 PM PDT

  • Just when you think we've hit bottom . . . (47+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    Matt, SarahLee, AaronInSanDiego, GreenSooner, mattman, etagloh, TooLittleSleep, Caj, JavaTenor, dc 20005, anotherCt Dem, Casey, Gray, commonscribe, Catte Nappe, rini, blueyedace2, daulton, turnover, Rogneid, trashablanca, Albatross, christomento, AntKat, pgm 01, willb48, discocarp, AJsMom, bad dad, ludwig van brickoven, mamamarti, Fonsia, BoiseBlue, AikoAdam, jkpcguru, beijingbetty, flahawkfan, DaNang65, ford prefect 2, Dougie, HeadnHeart, Junah, robertacker13, Lost and Found, ahyums, Obliterati, The Defenestrator

    here it comes again.

    I'm so tired of this. We really need to let go.

    "With all the wit of a stunned trout, prodigal stumbled clumsily into the midst of a discussion . . . " -- droogie6655321

    by prodigal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:58 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • How can you judge one way or the other (20+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      RFK Lives, oslo, Miss Blue, KateDK, Oy the Billybumbler, jfdunphy, mariva, blitz boy, MrJersey, thatvisionthing, some other george, sldulin, wuod kwatch, elwior, Blogvirgin, SPD, bronxcharlie, ladygreenslippers, debrazza, rock2casbah

      until you know if its true or not?

      If she is the grandmother and not the mother then this story should be told.

      It affects the ability to judge her mental health.

      "The owners of this country know the truth: its called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~ George Carlin

      by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • she is also bragging about her decision (37+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        CalifSherry, Shockwave, RFK Lives, peace voter, peacemom, Glic, oslo, Miss Blue, Oy the Billybumbler, gmhowell, motCT, cartwrightdale, phinky, gazingoffsouthward, mariva, Prognosticator, hideinplainsight, Andy30tx, MrJersey, Dem partisan, SmilingPolitely, Mom to Miss M, some other george, wuod kwatch, Blackacre, elwior, Scubaval, leftneck, notksanymore, Former Chicagoan Now Angeleno, SPD, ladygreenslippers, kenjisan, robertacker13, debrazza, LoveforObama, Cowabunga

        to birth a downs baby. SHE is making this part of her campaign.

        Still, I think we should leave this to others who can actually look at the records, etc. It should be ably to be proven false in about five minutes.

        by loper2008 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:59:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • (6+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          CalifSherry, ThatsNotFunny, blitz boy, willb48, elwior, debrazza

          There once was a man named mccain, who had the whole white house to gain, but he was quite a hobbyist of boning his lobbyist, so much for his 08 campaign. SC

          by christomento on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • And if it's proven wrong (18+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          SarahLee, Realist2004, TooLittleSleep, dc 20005, housesella, Nellcote, Casey, duck, EntrWriter, blueyedace2, noof, zhimbo, willb48, AJsMom, HeadnHeart, Lost and Found, ordinaryperson, Obliterati

          Don't we all look like the bright, shining examples of where we want politics to be?

          NO.

          We look like a bunch of petty and pathetic rumor mongers and that is beneath us.

          "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

          by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:09:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Not a chance in hell (13+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            SlackerInc, TooLittleSleep, emmanuel, KateDK, mariva, blitz boy, MrJersey, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, chesterdog, SPD, debrazza, Gusser

            that this is wrong.
            The whole cover story is insultingly flimsy.

            Whether we should know, that's another question,
            IMHO answered in the affirmative since:

            she CHOSE to expose her family to this scrutiny and
            she CHOSE to tout her Pro Abstinence, Pro-Life, Mother&Governor Superwoman credentials into the campaign.

            by Bambleweeny57 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:10:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Goopers are worried that it's true (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              blitz boy, debrazza

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:16:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          • If this isn't true, (20+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            RFK Lives, emmanuel, litho, Yomberto, KateDK, Gorestro, gazingoffsouthward, mariva, blitz boy, MrJersey, Dem partisan, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, Christie, RIP Russ, notksanymore, Former Chicagoan Now Angeleno, ljfxiki, SPD, Diesel Kitty

            Then she is a nutcase for flying 4000 miles already in labor on an earlier flight. If it is true, she is a nutcase anyway for coming up with a story like that.

            There is absolutely no f*cking way this things turns out well for her. Keep in mind that I would prefer to take her at face value, and conclude that she is criminally irresponsible for flying to Texas for a damn speech essentially at term, and for flying back whie already in labor.

            We are all way too agitated about what this means to us. The damage it makes to WcCain is so hugely much greater than anything we can get. Or are we just scared, and hope that if we cower and don't say anything bad about these 2, that they will be nice to us? Come on, you know better.

            by power2truth on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:14:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • I agree (9+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              SlackerInc, Gorestro, blitz boy, Dem partisan, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, power2truth, Former Chicagoan Now Angeleno, debrazza

              There is no way that Palin comes out with good judgment from this situation. Either she is criminally irresponsible or a liar.

              by KateDK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:54:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • I think we've defused a bomb. (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                Land of Lincoln Dem, power2truth, Scubaval

                I don't think so. Assuming all this is true, I can see McCain/Palin (or certainly Rove) banking on the following scenario:

                1. Questions arise (naturally or not) about her late-night cross-country flight of labor to the least qualified hospital for delivery.

                2. She defends them straight, until they either start showing as a negative on their polls or the election is ~5 days away (perfect range for an emotional pull on the vote).

                3. Once in range, she holds a press conference to announce that she has lied to us all, but it was to save her daughter the embarrassment of being a teenage mother and to give Trig the care that only she could provide.

                I'd bet McCain/Palin would get a 2-3 point boost on the release. People generally sympathize with mothers in her situation, especially those with pre-teen and teenage kids of their own. Hell, I would sympathize with her!

                So, our mission: make them make that admission sooner, not later. Give the "she lied to save her daughter" meme time to dissipate before the election. Give ourselves time to couch it in the worst possible light.

                Or, make them prove us wrong. I'd love to be proven wrong here.

                by JetTredmont on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:24:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • Next question would be: who's the father? (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  Christie

                  Why go to such lengths, in this day and age, to cover it up?

                  by power2truth on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:18:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • Simple (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:

                    Christie

                    Because it's not "this day of age" in the households of fundamentalist politicians.

                    Not to say I have any desire to touch this story, but the motive seems clear...

                    "While there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free!" -Eugene V. Debs

                    by leftneck on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                • The people likely to vote for her would not feel (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  Christie

                  any sympathy for her. They would be apathatic towards voting for her and that's not what they want representing them. A liar who can't control her daughter yt wants to try and control other people's children. They are the least sympathetic of people. The rest of the world would be like I told you nitwits so.

                  by rock2casbah on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:53:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            • All you cowering Nancy Pelosis (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              blitz boy

              Or are we just scared, and hope that if we cower and don't say anything bad about these 2, that they will be nice to us?

              You scorners here can't stand it when Pelosi won't impeach, yet you won't either. Impeachment says there's cause for a trial with evidence to be presented AND weighed AND investigated. It doesn't say it's proved, it says ask the question in public, openly, transparently, and see any evidence. Consider it. Weigh it. And then decide your vote. This diarist is presenting evidence that you say you are disgusted to look at and ashamed of Kos for presenting (and are first in line to say so). And we are all to vote blind.

              Color me disgusted.

              by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:55:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • to scorn = to oppose impeachment? (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                power2truth, BoiseBlue

                that's a new one.

                but what's even funnier is that you seem to be saying that we need to put our money where our mouth is.

                you do see the irony, don't you?

                _______________

                it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

                -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

                by dadanation on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:11:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • Troll is just trying to change the topic. (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  dadanation, Christie

                  I wouldn't follow it there if I were you.

                  by power2truth on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:21:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          • Now Drudge is linking to the 1st Diary (10+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            TooLittleSleep, DigDug, dadanation, anotherCt Dem, BruinKid, daulton, Ghost of Robert Kennedy, AJsMom, CC Music Factory, BoiseBlue

            Jesus Christ.

            You're absolutely right, BoiseBlue. This is beyond pathetic.

            

            I think that might be the first time Drudge has linked directly to a Daily Kos diary, at least that I've ever seen.

            Good job, diarist! You've now shown Drudge's entire readership, and that ain't no small number, that DailyKos = tabloid trash and smear jobs.

            John McCain | John McCain

            by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:32:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Exactly. This is a right-wing trick. (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              CC Music Factory, Lauren S

              Think about it:

              IF if were true, it would not hurt her. She is a loving mother.

              Of course, it is not true--a woman under the public scrutiny she was under fake a pregnancy? Give me a break.

              And the fact that Drudge linked to it: BINGO!

              We are being played.

              KOS needs to do a little tracing on the auther. I think we will find a Republican operative behind this.

              One real dairy, and this trash twice. So a second-time diarist has all these photos and embeds? Quick learner.

              Wake up and smell the Rove.

              by daulton on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:03:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • The author of that diary is an unknown (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                daulton

                You're right on point.

                Check their history.... nothing to give them credibility. Yet people are going with it.

                Stupid as hell.

                John McCain | John McCain

                by Lauren S on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 02:54:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          • You won't look like anything. (0+ / 0-)

            The internet bloggers have been the only source of real truth in politics and is respected because of that fact. Drudge, Smoking Gun and now they don't even name the sites due to the fact that the information moves like wildfire and is passed like a baton from place to place. If this is not true it will die. If it is it will be revealed like Edwards. We only have 2 months before this can potentially blow up in this country's face threatening the sanctity of the Office of President. It should be snuffed out now.

            by rock2casbah on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:49:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      • What? (19+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SarahLee, Realist2004, AaronInSanDiego, Caj, dc 20005, housesella, dadanation, duck, blueyedace2, LithiumCola, PatsBard, Albatross, willb48, discocarp, AJsMom, bad dad, Libertaria, beijingbetty, Obliterati

        What the hell does this have to do with mental health? How can you make that stretch? Seriously?

        What fucking site am I on today?

        "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

        by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:59:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Are you crazy? (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          blitz boy, Scubaval, Former Chicagoan Now Angeleno, Diesel Kitty

          How many mothers, faced with a teenage daughter's inconvenient pregnancy, formulate or participate in a coverup that is apparently supposed to go on forever? How many mothers condemn their daughters and their babies that way? Because that's protection for a fleeting moment at best, condemnation for a lifetime at worst. A shame too horrible to ever confess or escape. A baby removed. And a bit unusual, wouldn't you say? It shocks my conscience. Is this about the mother's ambition, the family's religion, what, what, what's more important and better than the truth? Now everyone has questions. But, again, we are all to become complicit codependents and not ask, not know, just accept the cloud always hanging there but never say we see it.

          And what if it's not true? The photo evidence looks pretty convincing, and a lot of people are talking and making their best guesses, but there's room for doubt. Again, we shouldn't find out, even though she made a public announcement it's not our business, we have no right to fact check or reality check or judgment check the maybe strange and crazy mother who could be one cancerous McThuselah heartbeat away from the presidency...with our vote.

          And the baby. Since we magically accept Sarah's motherhood, we magically accept as well that our demands on Sarah as a vice president will leave room for her to care for this special needs Down's baby as well. And we'll vote that magical mother into a position where she can decide for all women whether they should carry their Down fetuses to term, and whether there will be supports in place to help families meet their Down's children's needs, and what family planning services should exist. And the magical mother will feel rewarded and validated for her magical decisions and so go forward. It's what we want. It's her right.

          Do we all have our scripts now? Do we all know what we're supposed to see and say? Tell me again what the empress's new clothes look like in those photos and videos? Uh huh, uh huh, dark maternity pants...thanks, got it.

          That's CRAZY.

          by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:44:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • Her mental health? (15+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SarahLee, Realist2004, dc 20005, dadanation, hesk, duck, dufffbeer, Burned, Albatross, ballerina X, bad dad, BoiseBlue, beijingbetty, flahawkfan, Lost and Found

        Explain to me why, if 100% true, this is anything more than act of kindness and love on Palin's part, to give her daughter a respite from fate and the infant a normal household?

        And prying into it is something other than reprehensible?

        I will listen to an argument but it better be awfully damned persuasive.

        by LithiumCola on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:01:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Well she said she'd force her daughter to have a (15+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          madhaus, emmanuel, revsue, KateDK, Gorestro, LithiumCola, mariva, Prognosticator, blitz boy, MrJersey, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, Blogvirgin, SPD, ChiTownBlue2000

          baby even if the daughter didn't want one so that's an issue. She is also trying to play the part of some sort of hero for having the child. If it's not hers then that's an issue. Limbaugh is already on top of that meme and if it's not true it needs to be crushed.

          Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

          by JayGR on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:05:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • Why not reserve judgment on the story's (6+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          copithorne, SarahLee, Gorestro, jfdunphy, blitz boy, LoveforObama

          veracity until it's properly researched? It shouldn't be too hard to get to the truth, particularly when the candidate releases her medical records.

          McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

          by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Will she release her medical records? (5+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            KateDK, gmhowell, Gorestro, blitz boy, elwior

            Without the prodding from the blogoshpere, will she even do it, or say that she is so young and does not have any serious medical conditions, so her medical records are unimportant.

            And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

            by MrJersey on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:52:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • Obama has a rumor debunking website, (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            Christie, elwior

            Sarah not so much.

            When the rumor was going around that Obama wasn't born in the United States, he posted his Hawaii birth certificate on a debunking "Fight the Smears" website he set up. But the reverse is happening here. Diarist reports online photos of Sarah taken from January to April 2008 are disappearing from the State of Alaska website. Proper research? I'm waiting for the National Enquirer to report. That's what we're down to when reasonble inquiry is squelched.

            by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:25:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • I don't agree with you (0+ / 0-)

          but when I mentioned this story to my wife, she said the same thing. Kind of surprising to me, but it makes sense.

          If true, this story is interesting, but even if it came out, it wouldn't hurt her in any noticeable way.

          by sxp151 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • except that she lied. n/t. (6+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            revsue, KateDK, Tirge Caps, mariva, thatvisionthing, elwior

            by roubs on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • No point in doing it if you're not going to lie (0+ / 0-)

              I mean, that defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

              by sxp151 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:27:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        • Ok, I'll try (12+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          SarahLee, litho, Miss Blue, KateDK, western star, LithiumCola, MrJersey, SmilingPolitely, Christie, Blogvirgin, Diesel Kitty, ChiTownBlue2000

          And I'm actually very unsure as to what is newsworthy...though I'm coming to the conclusion that we've had enough babyswitcheroo diaries here.

          If this is true (and I have no idea if it's not) it's not the daughter, it's the deception. It's not Bristol, it's a cover-up and perpetuating the deception while governor of Alaska.

          If this is true, she shouldn't be vice president of the United States.

          If this is true, I think it's a remarkable piece of bad parenting, but that's just me.

          by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:11:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • To bring a Down's syndrome baby into the world (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          KateDK, SmilingPolitely

          is a noble thing. The level of secrets, lies, and cover-ups that must have gone on (if the allegations are true) is anything but noble.

          by DirkFunk on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:37:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Your definition of noble and mine must differ n/t (0+ / 0-)

            For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of a next first lady
            O'biden '08!

            by second gen on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:02:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • We don't even know if she was being noble (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            Christie

            or not. Sarah may not even have known about it until it was too late to do anything anyway. If I had a mother like Sarah I wouldn't tell her diddly until it was too late for her to try to make me get rid of it and in order to save "face".

            by rock2casbah on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:58:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • Why we should "pry": (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          blitz boy

          1. It has already been made a campaign issue (the decision to birth Trig) by McCain/Palin and their surrogates.

          2. It is VERY likely that this is an "October surprise" in waiting (for exactly the reason you mention: it sheds Palin in a very sympathetic light, and close to the election could sway key states).

          3. It is more rational than condemning a person for naming their kid "Trig". :)

          by JetTredmont on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:30:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        willb48

        There once was a man named mccain, who had the whole white house to gain, but he was quite a hobbyist of boning his lobbyist, so much for his 08 campaign. SC

        by christomento on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • Not having kept up, (9+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        Shockwave, peace voter, Miss Blue, KateDK, majcmb1, thatvisionthing, Blackacre, Blogvirgin, eltee

        the first I heard of this was earlier today, and it sounded far-fetched, but I certainly don't know.

        What struck me (before hearing ANY of this) was that it was poor judgement to have such a small infant out in such a huge crowd as I saw the other day.

        I hadn't read the responses to the other diary, but just mentioned MY observation of this, and got flamed for suggesting it was not smart. But I know someone who took a five month infant to Wal-Mart to have portraits made (everyone who knew thought it was folly, and tried to talk the parents out of it) and the child ended up with a serious staph infection and back in the hospital.

        It's a matter of basic hygiene. Public places are full of germs, and especially threatening to infants of undeveloped immune systems. I can't imagine any person of sound judgement taking such a young infant into such a HUGE crowd, no matter WHOSE baby it is...

        by Prognosticator on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:08:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • well, I sort of feel the same way (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          peace voter, Prognosticator

          I took my kids out in public, but I certainly didn't take them any place with 1000s of people cheering.

          by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:12:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • Uh, I would unhesitatingly take my (5+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          Shockwave, Prognosticator, beijingbetty, SPD, dick armey

          two or three month old into a large crowd. I've had three children. My first never even got so much as a sniffle until he was over a year old. My second contracted a stomach virus from his older brother when he was six months and has otherwise never been sick in 2 1/2 years. My third is three months old, and so far so good. Infants that breastfeed, as Trig does, are VERY well-protected immunologically.

          by Mother of Zeus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:19:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Who is breast feeding Trig? (5+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            peace voter, Prognosticator, thatvisionthing, eXtina, around the way girl

            And by the way, many children with Down's have other anomalies.

            phillysuse

            by suse on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:26:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Sarah? (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              SarahLee, beijingbetty

              I've seen Sarah make reference to a breast pump.

              which allows her to continue working.
              
              
              ````
              peace
              
              

              U.S. Mayors to Congress: "Pass H.R. 676 NOW"

              by peace voter on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:15:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • But talking about a breast pump isn't proof (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                peace voter, Christie, SPD

                that she's the one actually using the breast pump.

                Try Mariva's Guide. You'll like it!

                by mariva on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:57:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • I wondered why she felt it necessary to (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  mariva

                  put this breast feeding statement on full blast in a national magazine like People. Like an advertisement or something. Very inappropriate discussion for a person trying to present an image of a heartbeaat away from being the leader of the free world. If anything very unHillary like if that's some of the voters she wants to attract.

                  by rock2casbah on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:04:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              • I saw a reference to Sarah breastfeeding (0+ / 0-)

                Can't remember where just now, maybe/probably Anchorage Daily News.

                Hey, this is interesting! You know how the diarist talks about State of Alaska web pages being taken down? I googled "Sarah Palin breastfeeding" and one of the results is a State of Alaska/Governor Sarah Palin dead link to her September 2007 proclamation of October 2007 as Breastfeeding Awareness Month--but it's still in the cache, last retrieved on August 26, 2008. The link to the enlarged photo (Sarah cutting a cake with daughter Piper) and printer friendly version are broken too. I wonder why they would scrub that page?
                

                

                by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:03:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            • Sarah is. (0+ / 0-)

              Nothing in this story proves anything to the contrary.

              Regardless, I sure hope that SOMEONE is, even if Sarah isn't.

              by Mother of Zeus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:19:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          • I would be more concerned about the noise (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            mariva, Prognosticator

            not the exposure to germs.

            by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:11:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • Depends on your circumstance (11+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            Miss Blue, KateDK, yuriwho, gazingoffsouthward, mariva, Prognosticator, thatvisionthing, Christie, Mother of Zeus, beijingbetty, Diesel Kitty

            I have a child who was born 1 month early too. Lung issues are common at that gestational age, which results in these children being quite vulnerable to infection and such. In fact, even though I kept him out of public as much as I could, our child contracted RSV at five months, thanks to the lungs' "bad start" - treated and recovered fully, thank goodness, but you must understand that even slightly premature infants can be much more vulnerable than full term babies.

            Would I have taken a one-month premie into crowds like that at only a few months old, then dragged him on a tour bus around the country? HELL no. And I question her much-touted motherhood credentials for doing such a thing.

            And now she's dragged him down into hurricane central.

            Wow. Just... wow.

            by Are We There Yet on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:11:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • True enough. So happy to hear that (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              thatvisionthing

              your baby recovered fully.

              I agree that premature babies are a different story. That's why I find the Texas-AK flight story so disturbing. Even if she wasn't in active labor when she left, she had thought she was before, she was leading fluid (and by your 5th, you know the difference), and yet she got on a 12 hour flight? That's insanity, because so many premies DO need help to breathe.

              by Mother of Zeus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:18:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • I agree (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                yuriwho

                At the very least, if her claim the baby is hers is true, she was risking the child's life. That shows horrendously poor judgment, and she is anything but mother of the year.

                by KateDK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:58:34 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • Doesn't matter who the mother is (0+ / 0-)

                  of the baby she is dragging around. On the other hand, the baby would be four months old now (born at the end of April), not one, two or three. Better enough? I know nothing.

                  by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:10:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        • A 4-month old... they go places. If the baby was (6+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          Shockwave, KateDK, mariva, Prognosticator, thatvisionthing, dick armey

          6 weeks or less, then you keep them in much of the time. But after that, the grocery store, running errands, the doctors office. If you have an older sibling in school, every germ that goes around school comes home anyway.

          Taking the kid to criss-cross the country at 4 months... no, I sure wouldn't do that. I can't imagine anyone who would.

          by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:30:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Yes; common necessary errands are one thing, (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            KateDK, mariva

            crossing the country and going to rallies of thousands of people is quite another.

            by Prognosticator on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:47:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • No, I would never campaign with one for any (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              KateDK, mariva, Blogvirgin

              length of time.

              by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:50:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          • I have been... (5+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            SarahLee, yuriwho, mariva, leftneck, beijingbetty

            ...touring with bands for about 15 years and have seen many babies raised in situations like this-all of whom have turned out beautifully. Americans are so over-protective of their babies. Ever spent any time in Africa? Babies are in huge crowds everywhere in the major cities and it doesn't seem to do them any harm.

            "Good to be here, good to be anywhere." --Keith Richards

            by bradreiman on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:38:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • She's a politician first and foremost (0+ / 0-)

          Politicians are known for hauling out their children (bonus points for babies) anywhere there's a photo op. Somehow they think this will get them votes...John Edwards practically FLUNG his youngest two in front of any camera within 5 miles.

          by bootes53 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 12:30:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • 2 words: Jack Nicholson (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        mariva, Nedsdag

        that's his life story, so it's not as 'out there' as some might think.
        in any case, i wish we could verify this, before we go on a rampage.
        we just can't be sure, unless it's investigated.

        by ladygreenslippers on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:40:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Bobby Darin too. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          mariva

          This election is about the past versus the future.

          by xndem on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:45:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • And Eric Clapton. (0+ / 0-)

            Also, the fictional Benjamin Hodge on the TV show Desperate Housewives.

            Try Mariva's Guide. You'll like it!

            by mariva on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:59:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      • Sullivan posts births at hospital site (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        oslo, mariva, Scubaval

        the site has now been taken down/......Here we go

        sullivan link http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...

        site that is now down

        http://www.matsuregional.com/...

        McBush is a gaffe monger.

        by BlueFranco on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:46:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • It's still up. (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          oslo, tealwomin

          I got a screen capture of the old one anyway earlier today.

          by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:12:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • That site is working for me right now (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          mariva

          It's really slow, probably because it's getting a ton more traffic than it usually does. It's only showing two births on the day Trig was born, and neither one of them was him.

          Yes, We Can

          by litho on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:16:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Taken down? (0+ / 0-)

            I get a 404 File not Found error right away. Is taht really due to traffic to the site?

            by dick armey on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:49:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • That can happen with an overwhelmed server (0+ / 0-)

              the site is probably been Drudged and Dailykosed into oblivion

              "lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed"

              by yuriwho on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:58:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          • Not working for me (0+ / 0-)

            Both links down. Somebody want to post a screenshot? What's to see?

            by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:15:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      willb48

      There once was a man named mccain, who had the whole white house to gain, but he was quite a hobbyist of boning his lobbyist, so much for his 08 campaign. SC

      by christomento on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Just when you think we've hit bottom... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      blitz boy

      here it comes again? hmmmmm....

      Your opinion, correct?

      There's a really neat way to finish the speculation.

      Find the birth certificate.

      That's my thought.

      Reality is best served in small portions and only to others.

      by 0hio on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:26:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Nope. (7+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SarahLee, Mlle Orignalmale, discocarp, AJsMom, beijingbetty, Lost and Found, Obliterati

        You have it all backwards. The accuser has to provide the proof that Palin faked her pregnancy.

        Conservatism is Dead!

        by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:27:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Those of us who've given birth before (29+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          SarahLee, Christin, LEP, joynow, litho, peace voter, Miss Blue, bws, revsue, On The Bus, houyhnhnm, Gorestro, yuriwho, mariva, blitz boy, fezzik, Blicero, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, Blackacre, wayoutinthestix, Scubaval, eltee, notksanymore, How Insane Is John McCain, SPD, bronxcharlie, Diesel Kitty, silverstairs

          I think knew right away this story sounded completely unbelievable. The more you hear, the weirder it sounds.
          There's no option where Palin sounds smart or reasonable here.
          It's her baby, and yet she's taking long plane rides at 8 months pregnant to give a speech. She's leaking amniotic fluid -- where I'm betting 99 percent of doctors would say what mine did -- get to a hospital now! (And I was full-term at the time. Said I wanted to take a shower and needed to drop my 3-year-old off at pre-school and then my husband and I would be at the hospital. No, get to the hospital now. You're at risk for infection. If your membranes are ruptured completely, you're at risk for a prolapsed umbilical cord, where the cord comes out first, baby presses against it and cuts off his own oxygen supply.)
          And they wouldn't let me go more than 24 hours with ruptured membranes before doing a C-section. Too great a risk of infection.
          These are my pregnancy experiences. I'm sure there are many women on this site who will say they experienced the same things.
          I bet there's no one here who's ever been pregnant who had a doctor who said, If you're leaking amniotic fluid, it's ok to stay and give a speech and then fly home for 11 hours. Not a single one.

          We know this story stinks. She's lying. Or she's a terrible mother and not very smart.

          And if she's elected, she will not hesitate to try to tell me and my daughter what we can do with our own bodies should we become pregnant.

          That's why it's relevant. She wants to stick her nose into everyone's pregnancies. We have a right to know about hers.

          by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:59:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • I was already hospitalized due to a high (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            joynow, Gorestro, mariva

            risk pregnancy, but had an emergency c-section within, I'd say, 15 minutes of my water breaking when my twins were 32 weeks along. I was a little younger I think, than Palin, but not much.

            by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:15:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • Well, I can see that. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            SarahLee

            But the problem is that we don't know all of the details of Palin's situation because of the simple fact of doctor-patient confidentiality. In other words, your situation and hers might be two totally different situations.

            Conservatism is Dead!

            by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:22:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • She had leaking amniotic fluid. That's what she (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              Gorestro, yuriwho

              said she had.
              Ask any doctor: you go to the hospital. They want to know if it really is amniotic fluid. They don't let you run around with ruptured membranes. You're risking infection. And ruptured membranes and infection are both risks for pre-term labor, which is why being confined to a plane, away from medical care, for hours and hours, is a bad idea.

              by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:39:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • I'll tell you what: (0+ / 0-)

                Since your mother seems to have a lot of knowledge in this area, it might help a lot for her to post about this sort of thing. Now, I would caution that even she can only speak to these situations in general and not to Palin's specific situation, but I think to have an expert like your mother on here would really move this discussion along.

                Conservatism is Dead!

                by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:43:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          • Cokie Roberts said today that this was an example (5+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            revsue, Gorestro, yuriwho, blitz boy, Scubaval

            of a gutsy woman, getting on the plane while in labor. Supposing it is true and she had an inflight emergency and forced the flight to divert or forced the crew or medical people who happened to be travelling on the flight to deal with an in-flight medical emergency delivery. All this because she was gutsy and got on a long flight while in labor. Sounds selfish and stupid to me at best.

            And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

            by MrJersey on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:59:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • "Can't have a fish picker from Texas" said Todd (0+ / 0-)

              Gutsy?

              http://www.adn.com/...

              "You can't have a fish picker from Texas," said Todd.

              by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:26:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      • Easy to fudge cert. when you're gov. (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        yuriwho, blitz boy, MrJersey, SPD

        Small state, small town, family with political pull, will scrub medical records, will get silence from hospital employees etc. (but I'm betting there would be a leak really soon.)

        Books are humanity in print. Barbara Tuchman

        by gazingoffsouthward on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:07:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • I sort of agree (22+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    PeteyP, SarahLee, dc 20005, peace voter, Mlle Orignalmale, stevej, Casey, Miss Blue, Prognosticator, Data Pimp, RickBoston, AntKat, rmonroe, Blackacre, elwior, mamamarti, Fonsia, Comrade Brad, flahawkfan, HeadnHeart, robertacker13, on board 47

    that this sort of topic should be off limits. And it sounded like a ridiculous conspiracy theory to me at first. But the wedding ring on Bristol convinced me there may be some truth.

    I'd like to rely on the gossip press to handle this, though, not DKos.

    WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Senator McCain's).

    by Anarchofascist on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:19 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • well put n/t (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      elwior, mamamarti

      John McCain is anti-choice

      by stevej on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:54:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • There is a simple explination... (7+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Thestral, pgm 01, mamamarti, beijingbetty, notksanymore, Junah, Obliterati

      It's a "Promise" ring. A lot of fundamentalist Christians give these to their daughters... a sort of bribe to encourage them to save their hu-nany.

      I think we are verring into COLB-gate territory here, and should stop before we embarrass ourselves.

      by Tatan on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:55:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • With all due repsect, I'm not embarrassing myself (7+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        joynow, Prognosticator, blitz boy, elwior, Mother of Zeus, SPD, Diesel Kitty

        That diarist isn't even soiling their unknown name.

        If anyone is, it's Andrew Sullivan. If any political leader tied to the Obama campaign or high profile Democrat chimes in, they'd be at risk.

        But frankly, random people on Daily Kos making unsupported allegations? This is bad why? O'Reilly is going to take some comments out of context and make us look bad?

        WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Senator McCain's).

        by Anarchofascist on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:04:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • It is surprising that anyone is worried (7+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          Miss Blue, Prognosticator, SmilingPolitely, Mother of Zeus, Anarchofascist, SPD, Diesel Kitty

          what O'Reilly will think or say about us. We police ourselves pretty well, and generally avoid really nasty slurs and such (especially compared to Free Republic and Little Green Footballs).

          For that, O'Reilly calls us Satan, the KKK, and the Communist Party (often simultaneously).

          Nothing we say will change his opinion in any way. There are arguments against discussing this story, but that's not one of them.

          by sxp151 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:09:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    • exactly (9+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      peace voter, QuickSilver, mariva, Nedsdag, RickBoston, elwior, Diesel Kitty, LoveforObama, around the way girl

      when I saw this

      

      I had a feeling something was up, but I would think the tabloids are the better source. I wouldn't surprised if there's some announcement re: Bristol next week from the McCain camp.

      by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:03:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Who else is supposed to hold the baby? (13+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SarahLee, TooLittleSleep, sxp151, peace voter, duck, dufffbeer, Albatross, willb48, discocarp, AJsMom, BoiseBlue, beijingbetty, Lost and Found

        She's the eldest, isn't she? How can her holding the baby be twisted into any sort of proof of parenthood, for god's sake.

        If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

        by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:10:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • How about the DAD? Why would you assume the elde (21+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          Shockwave, TooLittleSleep, 2lucky, joynow, peace voter, Miss Blue, Oy the Billybumbler, On The Bus, gmhowell, mariva, Prognosticator, Nedsdag, blitz boy, MrJersey, maizenblue, wayoutinthestix, beijingbetty, SPD, Diesel Kitty, around the way girl, Cowabunga

          st DAUGHTER for this job, anywho?

          McCain:economic policy shaped by lobbyist

          by eyesonthestreet on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:28:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Because she probably LIKES holding the baby (7+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            SarahLee, TooLittleSleep, dufffbeer, discocarp, AJsMom, BoiseBlue, beijingbetty

            Jesus, people! Get a grip!

            If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

            by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:49:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • When there is a big age difference... (9+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          SarahLee, TooLittleSleep, peace voter, jiordan, PatsBard, AJsMom, BoiseBlue, beijingbetty, Obliterati

          between siblings, the older ones often spend a lot of time helping with child care. That has certainly been the case in my family.

          When I look at this picture of Bristol I see a big sister who is doing a great job of taking care of her baby brother. Good for her.

          If Republicans were spreading rumors about Malia and Sasha in this way, people here would be just flipping out.

          Please, everyone, no more suspicious questions about Palin's children. It's just not right.

          by Lost and Found on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:59:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • What rubbish equating Malia and Sasha (0+ / 0-)

            to this situation. They could not even be involved in anything sordid like this. Get a reality check. She is at an age where being missing from school for 5 to 8 months is a Red Flag.

            by rock2casbah on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:07:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • I'm talking about the ring (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          peace voter, jlynne

          wedding, engagement, or "promise" as one poster put it on the finger usually reserved for wedding bands.

          by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:16:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • rings are funny aren't they? (0+ / 0-)

            it's on the middle finger of her left hand in one of the pictures posted in the first diary. http://www.dailykos.com/...

            Steny Hoyer = a slam dunk argument for term limits

            by jlynne on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:02:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      • I hold my... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SarahLee, beijingbetty

        ....siblings babies all the time gasp! even when the dad is around double gasp! This place is getting kooky!

        "Good to be here, good to be anywhere." --Keith Richards

        by bradreiman on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:42:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • It's a "Promise Ring" (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      SarahLee, houyhnhnm, mariva, Mother of Zeus, notksanymore

      Common in my neck of the woods, where there's all breeds of wingnuts. I'm not one so I can't tell you all the meaning of it 'cause I might get something wrong. Note that her ring is NOT worn on the ring finger.

      This diary is trollish, but only in the sense that it assumes an answer to a rumour that has not been confirmed yet.

      For the record (flame away), I do think that that Down's kid is Palin's grandson, not her son. But we don't have any real proof, and until more evidence comes up, it's best to not hammer it.

      Let's let the National Enquirer deal with this for now.

      Obama '08. Good for the Party, Good for the Country.

      by SouthernFried on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:07:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • You have finger counting issues (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        ksh01, mariva

        The Promise Ring theory may well be correct. There is some evidence pointing away from a Bristol pregnancy as well as toward.

        But that's definitely on her ring finger of her left hand.

        Nothing feels good like you in red and blue jeans and your white and night things. And your white and night things.

        WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Senator McCain's).

        by Anarchofascist on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:11:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • You're right.... (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          SarahLee, mariva, beijingbetty

          The picture of Bristol and the Kid clearly shows a ring on her left hand on the fourth finger, where one expects a wedding ring to be. Doesn't change the fact it's a Promise Ring, though it may be an Engagement Ring (doubtful).

          I was referring to a different picture from a different diary, an outdoor family shot which showed her wearing a ring on her middle finger, which is traditionally where a Promise Ring goes.

          As to the girl herself, I don't enjoy talking about her. It's sad that her name is going to get dragged through the mud, whether or not the rumours are true (evidence sketchy)

          Obama '08. Good for the Party, Good for the Country.

          by SouthernFried on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:34:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • yet it disappears in later photos taken the same (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        SPD

        day. There are pics with and without on Meghan McCain's blogette thingie. It's odd. I'm guessing you have no proof it's a promise ring? I don't mean to slam you, I just wondered if there is any.

        Agree about the proof, although I don't know what the truth is here or what our role should be or is. I'm clueless, but something's up...something's not right and, well, I guess the ball is in Palin's court to either explain or let the rumors go on.

        I wouldn't be surprised if Palin does a smear site, if it's all untrue.

        by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:17:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Nope. (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          ksh01, beijingbetty, Lost and Found

          The ball is in our court to prove that it is true. Just like any other allegation.

          Conservatism is Dead!

          by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:18:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • well yeah, I agree that (0+ / 0-)

            it's not going to prove itself. But EH, I did a search yesterday to see who, what, where people are chatting about this and it's all over the place. On many small social networking sites (many for women only). It grows at her peril...well, at least at this point, it's at her peril, we'll see. Once it hits Perez Hilton, it's all over the place though.

            by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:01:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • This topic shouldn't be off limits (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Oy the Billybumbler, Gorestro, jfdunphy, mariva, Diesel Kitty, LoveforObama

      If it's true. It means a woman who could be VP is a lying you know what.

      by Voodoo king on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:08:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Yeah, just like Clinton (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        Gray, Lost and Found

        But, but, but... she lied to America! Just what Obama needs.

        It's a private/family matter for pete's sake!

        From Europe? Join the fun at the European Tribune!

        by hesk on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:13:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • Someone, however, has to keep the pressure on (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Gorestro

      the gossip press to get it to the traditional media. Without the blogs, the DOJ US Deputy Attorney General scandals would have never gotten off the ground.

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:03:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • People are falling for the bait (20+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    TooLittleSleep, Casey, John3, daulton, turnover, prodigal, Temmoku, pgm 01, willb48, discocarp, bad dad, mamamarti, Libertaria, beijingbetty, batgirl71, flahawkfan, DaNang65, Lost and Found, Obliterati, The Defenestrator

    This is the only thing that can lose the election. It's complete and utter bullshit, and idiotic politics. Though part of me thinks that at least some of this shit is the work of Republican moles.

    by The Bagof Health and Politics on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:52:39 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Even if they didn't put us up to it, (11+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      TooLittleSleep, dc 20005, Casey, daulton, pgm 01, willb48, AJsMom, BoiseBlue, beijingbetty, Lost and Found, Obliterati

      the fact that people are sitting here -- again -- perusing photos of Palin's daughter does not speak well for the Kossack community.

      If we are going to be at all consistent with our tireless advocacy of privacy rights, and with our anger over the incessant smears that both Obama and Clinton were subjected to throughout the primaries, then we need to let this go.

      Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

      by Dale on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I agree -- this is not our business (7+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        TooLittleSleep, dc 20005, John3, daulton, pgm 01, beijingbetty, Lost and Found

        both in terms of substance AND process

        To give credit where it's due, the National Enquirer actually hit the Dem political establishment -- and that includes us -- with the truth in the Edwards case. If true, this story will come out in spades in the tabloid press -- let them do the dirty work.

        There, I've made my point, and with that, I'm out.

        Where's your Obama office?

        by Comrade Brad on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:15:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • The rumours started before she was picked as VP (9+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      TooLittleSleep, Miss Blue, mariva, blitz boy, thatvisionthing, beijingbetty, Anarchofascist, bronxcharlie, kenjisan

      There's a blog dated Aug 8th on reddit.com that discusses the controversy.

      by Momentum on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:08:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Do you have a link? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        thatvisionthing

        Try Mariva's Guide. You'll like it!

        by mariva on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • If this is credible...it does matter....someone (7+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Miss Blue, Gorestro, western star, mariva, Prognosticator, blitz boy, Diesel Kitty

      this unknown thrust this close to such power -- a 50% chance of becoming the 2nd most powerful person on the planet in two months -- and what do we know about her?!

      That's political and national security malpractice on McCain's part. We know nothing about this woman.

      That's insane. How do you know she's not capable of pulling some kind of stunt like this? And if she is, and we elect her Vice President of the United States -- a heartbeat away -- this is like the friggin' Dead Zone.

      Two months. That's how much time we have to figure out who the hell this woman is.

      Obama's been vetted and tested and subjected to how many stories, debates, elections in the past two years?

      Palin? Scary, scary shit.

      The Delivery Man by Joe McGinniss Jr. [Grove/Atlantic January, 2008]

      by joemcginnissjr on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:29:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Even if it isn't credible, she scares me (0+ / 0-)

        Granted, I'm a partisan for Obama, but still, what if he wins?

        The way I look at it, even if you didn't like a presidential or vice presidential candidate's politics if, for example (and god forbid) CANDIDATE John McCain had a fatal heart attack, would the people then be comfortable with Sarah Palin as taking his place? (I know she wouldn't be the nominee, but this is how I'm looking at it). I would think the answer is a resounding NO!

        And maybe that's where it will hit Americans hardest, especially with such an older possible president.

        by ksh01 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:04:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • What makes you think only Kossacks are wondering? (0+ / 0-)

      It started in Alaska and it's out there on Huffington Post and Andrew Sullivan and Drudge and...

      by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:01:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • If you have something of interest (7+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    dc 20005, willb48, bad dad, mamamarti, beijingbetty, Andrys, Lost and Found

    Take it to Drudge or National Inquiror. This is not appropriate for this site.

    If you want to practice gutter politics AND not hurt the reputation of the liberal left here at dkos, the send this information to the appropriate venue.

    We are not the appropriate place for gutter politics.

    We are better than this.

    We should be better than this.

    Think, for a freaking change before you post.

    We are all Droogie....f*ck the AP

    by crazyshirley2100 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:53:20 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Um...this isn't my diary. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Dartagnan, elwior, mamamarti

      "You won't be happy with me / but give me one more chance / you won't be happy anyway." - Stephin Merritt

      by turnover on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Realized after I posted (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        ruleoflaw, willb48, mamamarti, beijingbetty

        and requested a tip jar.

        We are all Droogie....f*ck the AP

        by crazyshirley2100 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:57:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • No apology? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          sxp151, mariva

          McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

          by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:08:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    • Drudge won't touch it. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      mariva

      I heard the National Enquirer has reporters on this story.

      "No Way! No How! No McCain!"

      by Nedsdag on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:51:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • This Is A Very Appropriate Site to Talk About It (0+ / 0-)

      We are vetting Sarah Palin because John McCain did not vet her properly. The allegation that the Christian right-wing conservative pro-life Republican vice presidential candidate lied about the birth of her grandson Trig is a gravely serious issue. Again, it's not about Bristol allegedly giving birth to Trig. It's about Sarah Palin allegedly lying about it to use Trig to portray her as a staunch pro-life in this election.

      Moreover, this YouTube broadcast provides even more information supporting the allegation. And this allegation has already spread out all over the Internet.

      by Gorestro on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:27:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • The hair (12+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    houyhnhnm, monkee, turnover, RickBoston, SouthernFried, rmonroe, mamamarti, SoCalRefugee, beijingbetty, flahawkfan, eXtina, around the way girl

    is the real issue here. Of the collage of the two preggers Sarahs the diarist says:

    The disparity is shocking

    Indeed, but it's not the physique, it's the hair. How the heck did folks have such poor taste in hairdos in the eighties?

    Anyway, folks should just leave the Gilf* and her baby alone. I think her candidacy is going to go Eagleton all by itself on the merits. A slimy push from the leftist blogosphere is not needed, is not helpful, and will only serve to discredit us.

    * where the G stands for Governor not Grandmother.

    by westegg on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:09 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Hilarious (7+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      westegg, monkee, mariva, RickBoston, elwior, beijingbetty, eXtina

      I agree about the hair. The 80s were a no no for fashion and hairdos.

      Except of course for my man LL Cool J. Who doesn't love him?

      by around the way girl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:03:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Don't call it a comeback.... (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        westegg, beijingbetty, around the way girl

        he's been here for years.

        Know your enemy - Rage Against the Machine

        by duck on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:16:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Hehe. n/t (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          westegg, beijingbetty

          by around the way girl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:29:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    • You're right. That *is* the scandal. (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      dc 20005, westegg, western star, mariva, eXtina, around the way girl

      Even worse, though, is the shocking way that Palin has hung onto the worst of those 1980s fashions.

      Two words: Hoop. Earings.

      She's running for VP, not for backup vocals with Gloria Estafan.

      Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

      by Dale on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:11:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Hahahaha (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        mariva, MKSinSA

        OH you guys are on fire tonight. So true though.

        Also, why is she still rocking a beehive?

        by around the way girl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:56:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • She schoolmarmed up. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          mariva

          To try to down play her beauty queen republican warrior princess look.

          YES WE CAN Register to Vote from China! http://www.votefromabroad.org

          by beijingbetty on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:02:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • Here's the problem. (11+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    Sandy on Signal, Miss Blue, houyhnhnm, western star, mariva, elwior, Calouste, BrooklynWeaver, Diesel Kitty, nirbama, Courtneys Mom

    The GOP has made this an issue by trying to paint her as some sort of heroic figure for having a child with DS while simultaneously being a fantastic governor.

    If it's not true then people deserve to know they're getting played.

    Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

    by JayGR on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:02:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Palin wouldn't hesitate to try to ban abortions (7+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Miss Blue, houyhnhnm, mariva, blitz boy, thatvisionthing, geejay, Diesel Kitty

      of any kind in this country for my daughters and yours. And yet she's ready to lie about her own daughter's pregnancy?
      No, not that. I really wouldn't mind if she lied about her daughter's pregnancy to protect her daughter.
      But once she's claimed the baby as hers, she doesn't get to be VP. She turns down VP because she's decided to lie and protect her daughter. Bringing that kind of scrutiny to the family is sure to bring out this secret.
      Unless being VP is more important than protecting her daughter. (And I believe it must be to Palin.)

      If it is her child, she chose to go on the road for a grueling two months with a 4-month old, special-needs child. I can't think of any good mother who would do that. You can't travel constantly for two months with a child that age, and I sure wouldn't leave him at home for that long.

      So I question her judgment whether the baby is hers or not. And I think I have a right when she wants to tell me and my daughter what we can do with our own bodies.

      by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:36:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Either way I question her judgment (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        Miss Blue, mariva, MrJersey, SmilingPolitely, RIP Russ, Diesel Kitty

        since, even if she's telling the truth, she endangered the life of her child by her actions.

        Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

        by JayGR on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • Actually that age is a great age for travel (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        mariva, Diesel Kitty

        if you have any help. They sleep a lot, aren't crawling or walking into trouble. You'd have plenty of time to cuddle with him as you traveled.

        The thing a "good mother" would not do is get on a plane when she had lost some fluid and had some contractions. If she is the mother she should not be VP because that was crazy bad judgment.

        by joynow on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:48:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Take a trip, OK. But be on the road from dawn (0+ / 0-)

          until midnight for two months straight? Going to give or six cities a day, the way a VP candidate goes?
          I don't think so.

          by teresahill on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:37:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • Huh? (0+ / 0-)

          They are still getting immunizations and usually get a little sick or have other reactions from them. They pick up colds and stomach viruses from anyone anywhere. They are starting to teethe. They get mysterious fevers and rashes. They get ear infections. Air travel bothers their ears and they scream even when they don't have ear infections.

          Maybe a bit of a trip--a vacation or something--would be fine. But travel as a regular part of existence for a four-month-old? I think it would be really hard.

          Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

          by NCJan on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:35:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • (0+ / 0-)

    There once was a man named mccain, who had the whole white house to gain, but he was quite a hobbyist of boning his lobbyist, so much for his 08 campaign. SC

    by christomento on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:06:13 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

  • I really think this diarist needs to be banned (11+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    dc 20005, daulton, turnover, ruleoflaw, Albatross, willb48, discocarp, AJsMom, alasmoses, BoiseBlue, DaNang65

    and warnings put out to anyone else who wants to post these types of diaries.

    If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

    by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:07:31 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • what type of diary is this (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      TheGreatLeapForward, mariva, blitz boy, bronxcharlie

      where will you start drawing the lines? Will we use your sensibilities or mine? The title of the diary makes its content clear self censor.

      "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq," Sarah Palin 07/07

      by Adept2u on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:14:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • The administrators have already spoken. (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        musing85, Mlle Orignalmale, PatsBard, willb48, discocarp, alasmoses

        And these diaries are off limits. It's what they say, not what we say.

        Conservatism is Dead!

        by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:23:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Although I agree 110% -nt- (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          alasmoses

          John McCain hates children.

          by discocarp on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:57:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • Conspiracy theories, attacking children (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        daulton, alasmoses, beijingbetty

        The admins have already drawn the lines.

        If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

        by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:50:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Funny thing about "conspiracy theories" (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          moiv, geejay

          It depends on who the theorists are whether they are accepted or not, doesn't it? It's who you are, not what you know. For instance, no centrist and few liberals would ever think of even questioning, much less scrutinizing, "conspiracy theories" that come from the police.

          A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow

          by ActivistGuy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Good sig line (0+ / 0-)

            by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:35:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • Totally disagree! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      thatvisionthing, Diesel Kitty

      While I disagree with any premature conclusion, I do see enough here to make me wonder.
      Unlike the misinformation propagated by the wingnuts against Barack and Michelle Obama, I don't see an organized attempt here to smear anyone, or to deliberately tell lies about a candidate and her family.
      If treated as what it is now, an unproven hypothesis
      based on facts that have an odd sound and feel, and pictures which tend to add possible visual corroboration, it is merely a matter that merits further examination.
      I see nothing to fear in discussing all of this, so long as we reserve judgment, and do not state unproven matters as fact.

      McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

      by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:26:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • It's already been decided. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        musing85, PatsBard

        This is not a matter that is appropriate to discuss on a blog that is supposed to be about electing Democrats.

        Conservatism is Dead!

        by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:35:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Have you ever read Ibsen's play (0+ / 0-)

          Enemy of the People?

          Who exactly decided this?

          McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

          by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:12:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • It has definitely been decided that (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            elwior

            Obama will be president. Let's save the time and money of that silly election...for it has been decided, decreed and so it will be.

            by joynow on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:50:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • Georgia10 and Meteor Blades. (0+ / 0-)

            Take it up with them.

            Conservatism is Dead!

            by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:06:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Perhaps I will (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              thatvisionthing

              I'm not sure how to contact them though, but I do believe people here are being a bit skittish on this one. Me, I like to think for myself, and speak for myself.
              And in a way, the skittishness puts me in mind of of Congresspeople who we so bitterly criticized for not standing up to the "president" on the War, FISA, and such, out of similar fears.
              I'm not convinced by any means about this story, but I do NOT fear discussing it.

              McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

              by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:24:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • On the side: (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                ksh01, elwior

                There is a Contact Us link. But I will say that even georgia10 admitted that it was bizarre and that there was nothing wrong with discussing it -- just jumping to premature conclusions like "PALIN FAKES PREGNANCY!" So, you and her seem to be on the same page.

                Conservatism is Dead!

                by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:30:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • Yes, I agree with her point of view exactly! (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  Eternal Hope

                  And thank you!

                  McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

                  by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:44:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                • speaking for myself (4+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  polecat, Eternal Hope, geejay, Scubaval

                  and only for myself, as I always have on this matter, I do not see a problem discussing the circumstances surrounding Palin's behavior re: the pregnancy, or asking questions. I will be the first to admit that going into labor and deciding to give a speech rather than go to the hospital may raise questions of judgment.

                  The problem was recommending a diary that stated, conclusively, that the the child was not Palin's but belonged to her 16 yr old daughter. That conclusions, presented as definitive and iron-clad, was entirely inappropriate for the rec list, I think.

                  But discussing the topic generally, or dealing with the questions relating to the bizarre circumstances surrounding the story in a responsible manner-that's fine, I think, and indeed, is what blogs are all about. Peddling rumor as definitive fact though? That shouldn't be what we are about.

                  by georgia10 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:47:05 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • That's actually a defensible line in the sand. (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:

                    Eternal Hope

                    Treat it as alleged, show the evidence that there is (from both or as many sides as you can find) and permit the reader to come to his/her own conclusions.

                    And above all, understand and state the difference between fact and opinion.

                    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                    <sup>-Spike Milligan</sup>

                    by polecat on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:50:18 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  • Thanks, and I agree. (0+ / 0-)

                    There was another recommended diary about this that purported to show Palin pregnant, yet it turns out that it was taken in August, when the baby was born in April. It was traced back to a Flicker post which had a "Press Secretary McAllister" in it along with the governor, yet there was no such person there until August. So, neither that photo, nor the diarist's photos tell me anything. All of this is a matter of peoples' subjective judgments at this point.

                    Conservatism is Dead!

                    by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:49:51 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        • I remember not too long ago (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          western star, thatvisionthing, Diesel Kitty

          any mention of John Edwards having had an affair was similarly greeted here. Closed minds often make their owners end up looking, well, not so good, particularly in a medium which purports to be about the dissemination of unfiltered information.

          A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow

          by ActivistGuy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:17:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • There was no way we could look into the truth (0+ / 0-)

            or lies around the story of the affair, not unless one of us was a person involved or close to one. All we had was the NE story, that was it. Not that the clues in this one are definitive, but at least there are some.

            I can see why it wasn't a topic to talk about.
            I wish it had been a lie.

            by joynow on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:54:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • This diarist as every right to post here. (9+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Oy the Billybumbler, mph2005, thatvisionthing, sldulin, leftneck, How Insane Is John McCain, bronxcharlie, Diesel Kitty, ChiTownBlue2000

      The story is very plausible. Lets see where further investigation leads.

      by Voodoo king on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:40:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Ja vol Herr Commandant!! (1+ / 2-)

      Recommended by:

      Poor Grunt

      Hidden by:

      sxp151, PatsBard

      Und zen ve must line zem up and shoot zem!!!!

      --------
      McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

      by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:45:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Totally uncalled for (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        MajorFlaw, alasmoses, Jyrinx

        If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

        by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:52:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • No, what's uncalled for is censorship. (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          RonV, Oy the Billybumbler, thatvisionthing, Poor Grunt

          Intelligent people can make up their minds without banning something so other people don't get to think for themselves. I was mocking the jackboot of the commenter who felt they alone possessed the judgement to ban somebody...rings a little of book-burning to me. I stand by my Ja-Vol.

          --------
          McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

          by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:02:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • And the admins have already denounced this diary (5+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:

            daulton, MajorFlaw, Pager, Libertaria, Jyrinx

            topic.

            This is the second time this diarist has posted the same crap - bannable offense.

            If it's not a Corgi, it's just a dog.

            by PatsBard on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:06:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Well, I mock them too then. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              thatvisionthing

              Merely having the title of administrator doesn't make someone right. They undoubtedly may ban anyone they want, but the diary raises questions. If the questions are easily dispelled, then truth is the greatest disinfectant. If not -- I remember well the Edwards fiasco, and believe me -- a lot of folks around here had egg on their faces after swearing it was gutter politics only to see that a) it mattered and b) it was true. This could mean the election. And the election could decide life or death. So hide behind your righteousness, but I'm quite comfortable saying to ANYONE that there is no crime in asking a question. And if Dkos should be ashamed, it should be ashamed of censoring entire TOPICS, not individual words or comments.

              --------
              McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

              by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:11:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • Diarist has developed an immunity to truth. (0+ / 0-)

                And having the title of administrator does make them right, by definition (unless Kos steps in). What they say goes, period.

                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:19:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • Truth hasn't been established, (0+ / 0-)

                  but apparently a distasteful question is unaskable regardless of the answer. Be proud.

                  --------
                  McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                  by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:45:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • People aren't just asking questions. (0+ / 0-)

                    They're posting utter bullshit, complete with lies about when photos were taken, fabrications about mononucleosis, etc. Whether the diarists involved are themselves lying or are merely repeating lies, they are clearly not demonstrating due diligence in the matter (and a lot of diligence is due here).

                    Besides, people are forgetting that if this story is true it may well only help Palin. Many fundies will applaud her for protecting her daughter from embarrassment after having made her go through with the pregnancy (rather than arrange an abortion). And honestly, I have to say I'm not even sure I disagree — to live one's beliefs in such a difficult situation is in fact admirable.

                    And don't forget that Obama was also born out of wedlock, a fact that hasn't been mentioned much explicitly. We may want to leave that hornet's nest alone altogether.

                    Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                    Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                    by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:57:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    • This pseudo-scandal/rumor goes directly (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:

                      Gorestro

                      to the heart of her prime qualification. She was most assuredly NOT chosen for her experience. Her own pandering to Clinton voters indicates that issues will not be the focus of her raison d'etre. The one, the ONLY issue here and the reason she was put forth as "exactly" who we need in the (possible) white house (other than her gender, which although admirable would qualify over half the population as a sole criterium) is her judgement and character. Whichever 'truth' is correct in this matter, the facts...the questions are important in evaluating both her judgement and character. While the fundies may love her regardless, the American people don't like liars. Even if she's not a liar, she can only but lose votes by having wider exposure of the bizarre circumstances of the birth -- who among the people you know would ADMIRE her for dripping amniotic fluid for 22 hours on a cross-continental iditarod with the full information she had both a problem fetus and a premature labor?

                      It would be ridiculous to give this story a pass.

                      --------
                      McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                      by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:28:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      • Nobody would see her as a liar for it, (2+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:

                        dufffbeer, daulton

                        especially after the spin machine is done with the story. I mean, if you ask people whether it's okay to lie in order to protect your daughter, you'll get a whole lot of HELL YES.

                        And actually, if the circumstances of the birth actually are a legitimate issue (about which I'm not convinced), making a big deal of whose baby it is will only cover for that. Debunked scandals have a way of immunizing one against related scandals (think Fontgate).

                        (BTW, much as I appreciate that you know that criteria is plural, the singular is actually criterion. Carry on :-) )

                        Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                        Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                        by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:39:26 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        • Crap. Criterion. Damns. (0+ / 0-)

                          Doubt that the coverup would be a net positive as you suggest, in any event -- it would be a distraction, and that is a victory in the PR wars. In fact, I think this whole thing is glorious in as much as it steals the narrative which is tantamount to running out the clock -- when you do that, victory goes to the guy who was ahead before you changed the subject.

                          --------
                          McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                          by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:56:39 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          • A distraction is *good* for them. (1+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:

                            daulton

                            They need as many shiny objects as they can get to distract people from thinking about what the last eight years have done to America.

                            Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                            Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                            by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:58:31 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            • Distractions are only good when you're ahead. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                              --------
                              McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                              by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:04:04 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              • How? (0+ / 0-)

                                If you're ahead, you don't want to distract from whatever is putting you ahead. A distraction serves to change the narrative.

                                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                                by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:04:55 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                • Newtonian physics (0+ / 0-)

                                  a tangential force can't move you backward or forward....the race freezes while everyone searches the woods for the missing white woman (or whatever).

                                  --------
                                  McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                                  by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:18:33 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                              • These "Distractions" (0+ / 0-)

                                happen to be a young girl and a baby.

                                by Poor Grunt on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:16:30 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                • Well, that is unfortunate. (0+ / 0-)

                                  But then again it's even more unfortunate that they were initially brought in as props by their mother (and the baby's story made an essential qualifying part of her "character" and judgement, vis a vis pro-life, walking the walk, etc.)

                                  --------
                                  McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

                                  by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:20:33 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  • Why not wait (0+ / 0-)

                                    For this to, at least, reach the level of the National Enquirer before we pursue this any further?

                                    After all, isn't this an example of making this election about "little things"?

                                    by Poor Grunt on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:26:23 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

                    • First, Obama WAS born in wedlock. (0+ / 0-)

                      He was CONCEIVED out of wedlock.

                      There is a difference. Be accurate.

                      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                      <sup>-Spike Milligan</sup>

                      by polecat on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:46:51 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                • Diarist is posting plain evidence (0+ / 0-)

                  so it's kind of funny to see you say the DIARIST has developed an immunity to truth. And the title of administrator doesn't make them right, it makes them have powers. Wise? I disagreed on Stranahan banning but Georgia10 above drew a reasonable line in the sand for this case, and here we are still seeing this diary and commenting, God bless. Of interest, Stranahan posted a blog on Huffington Post where he says DKos is running off with a bad story here as opposed to his good story that he was banned for. I throw my hands up in the air. PBJ Diddy said it best above you.

                  by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:58:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              • Respectfully Disagree (0+ / 0-)

                CT Diaries are not allowed, for example. I believe that the FAQ insists that fantastic claims require fantastic evidence, or some sort of verbiage.

                I think this topic crosses the border in that it attempts to draw-in two "innocent by-standers" as collateral damage- that is the two youngsters.

                I am very comfortable allowing a raising the bar for tolerance when it comes to the candidates families- especially the children.

                by Poor Grunt on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:14:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            • Can you shoot me a link (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:

              oslo, Lauren S

              to Admin finally saying something about this? Many of us have openly commented that there has been a serious lack of Admin on this subject and I've seen nothing on the front page about it, either. Then again, I stayed off this site all day today, on purpose, out of disgust for this shit.

              What's a good atheist substitute for "God bless America and Godspeed to you all"? Have a nice day and drive fast?

              by Pager on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:18:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • Georgia10 posted a rather stern "suggestion" (4+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                daulton, VolvoDrivingLiberal, Pager, Lauren S

                that everyone unrec the diary entry that made the rec list.

                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:20:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • I'm glad to hear it (3+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:

                  daulton, Lauren S, Jyrinx

                  but I'd really, really like to see something a bit more than that come from Admin. This site look stupid and second rate, at this point. Then again, if Kos doesn't mind losing his credibility, why should I care?

                  Appreciate the link below. Thanks for that, Jyrinx.

                  What's a good atheist substitute for "God bless America and Godspeed to you all"? Have a nice day and drive fast?

                  by Pager on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:22:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • I dunno, Georgia sounded pretty serious. (3+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:

                    daulton, Pager, Lauren S

                    There was definitely an implication that further measures are imminent.

                    Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                    Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                    by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:25:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    • Yeah, I think you are reading her right. (3+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:

                      daulton, Lauren S, Jyrinx

                      I just followed your link and I really want to applaud her for stepping up. Good on her.

                      What's a good atheist substitute for "God bless America and Godspeed to you all"? Have a nice day and drive fast?

                      by Pager on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:37:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    • I would certainly hope so (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:

                      Jyrinx

                      Check out what the diary resulted in:

                      

                      A headline spot on Drudge Report linking directly to the first diary. Pathetic.

                      This diarist is now responsible for a lot of people who have never even heard of DailyKos now thinking of it as a complete tabloid trash site. Great first impression to give millions of people.

                      John McCain | John McCain

                      by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:40:27 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      • GODDAMN IT. (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:

                        Lauren S

                        If nothing else, this is why we need a Smite button. Nasty comments can get hidden, and this gives us cover. Nasty diaries, not so much.

                        Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                        Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                        by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:48:46 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        • It gets much worse (1+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:

                          Jyrinx

                          ksh01 just posted that Perez Hilton has reported it at his site. I went over to check it out and not only is it posted as "YOU MUST READ THIS!" but it is now the #1 most emailed post at perezhilton.com

                          Unbelievable. Why is this diarist not banned after this repeat performance?

                          The perezhilton post isn't subtle either.

                          You Must...
                          Filed under: Etc.

                          Click HERE!
                          Click HERE!
                          Click HERE!
                          Click HERE!
                          Click HERE!
                          Click HERE!
                          Posted: August 31, 2008 at 4:18 pm

                          Drudge + PerezHilton = Millions of readers

                          John McCain | John McCain

                          by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:53:03 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          • perezhilton link (0+ / 0-)

                            http://perezhilton.com/...

                            John McCain | John McCain

                            by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:54:02 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          • Well, that's not exactly seen as a kingmaker (1+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:

                            Lauren S

                            of news stories the way Drudge is, is it?

                            Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                            Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                            by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:55:47 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            • politically speaking? no, not political at all (1+ / 0-)

                              Recommended by:

                              Jyrinx

                              It's an extremely popular site though with a very high readership. I'd say it could be even worse than Drudge linking because the percentage of people at PH who are familiar with DKos is probably much lower than Drudge by far. So this will be a first impression of DailyKos for a lot of people.

                              John McCain | John McCain

                              by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:58:24 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              • But will that crowd (1+ / 0-)

                                Recommended by:

                                Lauren S

                                be as likely to see the story as something reflecting negatively on us? I mean, absent an outrage machine, I should think low-info types would eat this sort of rumormongering up …

                                Also, a post containing nothing but the words "CLICK HERE" is certainly framing it as a credible story, which is much different from the Drudge "lefty bloggers" treatment.

                                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                                by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:01:29 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                • I don't think Perez is worried about how any (1+ / 0-)

                                  Recommended by:

                                  Jyrinx

                                  story is framed. He lives for pushing gossip as fact.

                                  The saving grace with that crowd though is as you imply, they will definitely eat it up and it's most likely a more liberal readership.

                                  Regardless, between Drudge and PerezHilton, that's a shitload of people who will see complete rumor reported as absolute fact BY DailyKos as most of those people won't know the difference between a diarist reporting it and the site itself reporting it. Hell, Drudge is attributing it to Kos himself by his headline. The "lefty bloggers" headline is linked to a post by Amanda Carpenter at Townhall.com.

                                  John McCain | John McCain

                                  by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:05:19 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  • Yeah, Drudge is more worrisome. (1+ / 0-)

                                    Recommended by:

                                    Lauren S

                                    (BTW, that's what I meant by "framing" — I guess I meant more in the sense of "presenting" than "spinning.")

                                    Another mitigating factor with PerezHilton would I imagine be that if he's that big a rumormonger he probably links to lots of different sites of varying credibility all the time. Seems just as likely people will forget about Daily Kos tomorrow when he finds another shiny object to throw toward them.

                                    Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                                    Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                                    by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:10:16 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

                                    • The damage won't be longlasting or (1+ / 0-)

                                      Recommended by:

                                      Jyrinx

                                      widespread but the problem is that there shouldn't have had to be damage to this site to begin with.

                                      John McCain | John McCain

                                      by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:18:41 PM PDT

                                      [ Parent ]

                              • The irony of the PerezHilton link to the diary (0+ / 0-)

                                is that this is the type of story that PerezHilton and his ilk are known for. Pure tabloid trash, gossip, etc... he's been sued several times.

                                John McCain | John McCain

                                by Lauren S on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:02:00 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

              • And here's the link: (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:

                anotherCt Dem, Pager, Lauren S

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                by Jyrinx on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:21:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      • Uprated (0+ / 0-)

        Realistically, this did not need to be hidden. It really is just a Meta argument.

        A bit off-key humor, but not, but any stretch of the imagination, deserving to be hidden, at least by my understanding of the FAQ.

        by Poor Grunt on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:54:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • I really think you're crazy and overreaching (0+ / 0-)

      MHO.

      The diarist is substantiating his or her claims with photographs, videos and published news accounts, and the subject of Palin's truthfulness and judgment is legitimate and widely discussed, as it should be. If it's true, she didn't have to lie, she could have simply adopted openly. If it's not true, she could debunk like Obama did when there were rumors that he wasn't a natural-born citizen--put up a debunking website and post evidence. Instead evidence is disappearing. You don't have to read this diary or scroll deeply through the comments. And you don't have to hijack this information away from others who can handle the truth. You think we look awful for discussing this? I think we look awful for all the rec'd comments calling for censorship. We apparently want a nanny state after all.

      by thatvisionthing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:33:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • what I can never figure out is all these (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    thatvisionthing, Scubaval, bronxcharlie, Diesel Kitty

    people who are so utterly disgusted by a diary's subject----why are they reading it? Why don't they just skip it and move on down the road.
    The subject matter was evident from the diary's title. How can you be so shocked and offended. Don't read it if it is so offensive. Look down the list and find one you like.
    That's what I do----there's plenty I avoid, by the subject alone. Will save all this need to type words of disgust.

    by dotster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:42:59 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Because ultimately it isn't about the diary (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      daulton, bad dad

      It's about the site. Is this the kind of crap we want this place to be known for all across the intertoobz?

      I think not.

      Michael
      Musing's musings

      by musing85 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:17:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I like it (0+ / 0-)

        Here's why:

        Because any schmuck can do the work, gather the evidence, piece a puzzle together from bits of reality and post it. Then any other schmuck can find more evidence and shoot a hole through the first one, or back it up. It's active critical collaborative thinking, not passive lapping of pablum. It's firing on all cylinders. It's fearless curiosity. I don't have to depend on the MSM transcribing Rove's talking points. This is how we pour water on Rove. Said hideously: "I'm melting, I'm melting! All my beautiful wickedness!" Such music to ponder.

        by thatvisionthing on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 12:30:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • The Mat-Su Regional Site no longer available. (0+ / 0-)

    I was looking on the site at the list of births on April 18, and suddenly it was gone.

    by draba on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:03:49 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

• Good diary Mr. Hannity (24+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  mattman, jkennerl, pat208, daulton, Slartibartfast, RickBoston, christomento, AntKat, pgm 01, Randall Sherman, jessical, Theden, ludwig van brickoven, mamamarti, Libertaria, flahawkfan, BA BarackUS, Dougie, Junah, robertacker13, Lost and Found, gougef, ahyums, Obliterati

  If your diary is shorter than a Jeff Foxworthy joke....it might be a comment.

  by ford prefect 2 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:00 PM PDT

  • More likely Mr. Rove (9+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    mattman, daulton, trashablanca, pgm 01, mamamarti, Dougie, robertacker13, Lost and Found, Obliterati

    This is too clever by half for Mr. Hannity.

    This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

    by GreenSooner on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:50:40 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

• Please stop. (32+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  mattman, jkennerl, EricS, Casey, pat208, claytonben, Rogneid, trashablanca, Albatross, prodigal, DJShay, middleagedhousewife, RickBoston, AntKat, pgm 01, jessical, willb48, condorcet, bad dad, ludwig van brickoven, mamamarti, AikoAdam, flahawkfan, DaNang65, BA BarackUS, Dougie, Junah, Lost and Found, ilves, ahyums, Obliterati, The Defenestrator

  Please. This is NONE OF OUR GODDAMN BUSINESS.

  "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

  by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:02 PM PDT

  • Something tells me please isn't going stop this (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    mattman, Rogneid, pgm 01, jessical, mamamarti, BoiseBlue, AikoAdam, Lost and Found

    crusade.

    The press thinks being fair and balanced means if a comment is made about the pleasant smell of roses, not forgetting to talk up the smell of shit.

    by Dungeon Dwelling Dragon on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:46:46 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Well something tells me (13+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      GreenSooner, mattman, Casey, Rogneid, AntKat, pgm 01, jessical, mamamarti, DaNang65, Dougie, Obliterati, Dungeon Dwelling Dragon, DClayton

      That this diarist's days are numbered. And I won't shed a fucking tear over it.

      "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

      by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:48:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • my hunch is that the same folks from the muslim (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        mamamarti, Obliterati

        smear are working on this b/c their candidate was snubbed for VP, is the same crap time and time again, regular kossacks would have stopped (and did) at the first dozen HR's

        Please folks let somebody else do this dirty job.

        "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

        by IamTheJudge on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:55:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • I'm always suspicious (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        cartwrightdale, pgm 01, jessical, BoiseBlue, Obliterati

        of usernames with a name followed by numbers (makes it easy to remember all your multiple puppets), but with a UID of 35535, if ArcXIX is a stealth registration they certainly waited for awhile.

        However, you can tell they know they have a target on their back if they don't leave a comment in their own diary.

        Wingnuts hate Big Media cause it sometimes tells the truth.
        We should hate it for the rest of the time when it don't.
        Oh, also when they eat brains.

        by Ugluks Flea on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:15:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • New user "ApersandPilcrow" posted new youtube (0+ / 0-)

          on Bristol theory yesterday. Much the same info as in the first diary. He talks you through the evidence. "I report. You decide." (Yeah, who are you?) Maybe that's him.

          http://www.youtube.com/...

          by thatvisionthing on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 12:37:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    • Nor should it until it is proven wrong (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      Lizzie Jane, thatvisionthing, SmilingPolitely, elwior, Diesel Kitty

      then there should be apology and contrition.

      Really, how could Sarah Palin a person in the public eye go to term and the people around her not know she was pregnant? Arn't you the least bit curious?

      If she is the grandmother claiming to be the mother, then that should be known. What else is she lying about? If you don't think a lie like that from a vice presidential candidate is relevant then I don't she why you would care who is elected.

      "The owners of this country know the truth: its called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~ George Carlin

      by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:01:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • You have it all backwards. (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        dc 20005, Casey, Albatross, pgm 01, Lost and Found, Obliterati

        You, the accuser, have to prove that Ms. Palin faked her pregnancy. And all we have at this point is this diarist's conjecture.

        Conservatism is Dead!

        by Eternal Hope on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:02:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Well, more than that, (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:

          Eternal Hope, dc 20005, BoiseBlue, Lost and Found

          We're holding her daughter's photos up to the light, like we're doing a photo spread on "Celebrity Bikini Disasters!" for US magazine.

          Even if we could definitively prove this story... would we really learn as much about Palin as we would about ourselves? About how low we're willing to sink into the mire?

          Really, people... we're better than this.

          Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

          by Dale on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:16:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • Because (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:

        dc 20005, sxp151, Casey, Albatross, condorcet, Lost and Found

        We are the party that respects the unique and personal decisions that families have to make.

        "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

        by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:08:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

• Why do you hate hope? (8+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  pat208, Rogneid, pgm 01, willb48, mamamarti, BoiseBlue, Flyswatterbanjo, robertacker13

  There is no Left Wing. Left is the truth.

  by BA BarackUS on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:26 PM PDT

• Hmmm! (2+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  Fixed Point Theorem, BA BarackUS

  by Courtneys Mom on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:57 PM PDT

• Deja Vu? Same diarist as yesterday that was (6+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  GreenSooner, mattman, Catte Nappe, pat208, daulton, mamamarti

  deleted.

  "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot."

  by Gramarye on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:32 PM PDT

  • No, it wasn't (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    sxp151, SomeStones, mamamarti, DaNang65, robertacker13

    In God we trust. All others must pay cash.

    by yet another liberal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:59 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

  • Pulled from the rec list; not deleted. (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:

    mattman, Catte Nappe, John3, mamamarti, DaNang65

    Diaries rarely are deleted.

    Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

    by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:44:35 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • And it was just unrecc'ed (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:

      mattman, Casey, elliott, middleagedhousewife, mamamarti

      At georgia's request.

      In God we trust. All others must pay cash.

      by yet another liberal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:46:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

• Probably going to be banned (6+ / 0-)

  Recommended by:

  mattman, pat208, John3, CC Music Factory, mamamarti, Anarchofascist

  You've already put it out there.

  Can't you just let this run its course.?

  Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

  by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:42 PM PDT

• .